The Macmillan Report definitely states that it is a dishonest practice .sx It states further that the principal bankers in this country have been guilty of it for a considerable number of years past and that it ought to be stopped immediately .sx I think this House has a right to know , as the Government were so anxious to deal quickly with the report in regard to unemployed men , why the Macmillan Report is not dealt with in the same way , and , if it is to be dealt with , in what way it is to be done .sx Are these people who were responsible for issuing fraudulent balance sheets to be put into the dock , where they ought to be , and , if not , why is it that this House , which is so scrupulous in regard to honesty in other industries , allows the bankers to continue that fraudulent method that has been exposed by the Macmillan Report ?sx I would like to know also what really constructive policy the National Government have in mind .sx I am interested in the housing industry .sx I have worked in it for a great number of years and am familiar with all its branches .sx In quite recent months I had the opportunity of seeing definite quotations of prices for a number of houses computed to be 10,000 , and I have seen that by building on a large scale , by what we call mass production and by standardisation , you can reduce the present prices , issued from month to month by the Ministry of Health , by 15 per cent .sx I can produce to anybody who desires to see them definite tenders from the largest manufacturers in this country showing a 15 per cent .sx reduction on the materials used in house building , based on 10,000 houses a year .sx In the last Parliament Sir Tudor Walters , who was then a Member of this House , and who has had very consider-able experience in house building , in-formed me and others he informed the House , in fact that if they could see the costs that could be saved by mass production in house building , it would amaze them .sx I am telling the House now that I have in my possession I do not say here , but they can be produced definite tenders for everything that goes into the making of a house , showing a reduction of 15 per cent .sx on the last prices issued by the Ministry of Health .sx An HON .sx MEMBER :sx " Foreign doors ?sx " No , they are British doors .sx Everything with the exception of the tiles is British ; I am not saying English , but coming from the British Empire .sx As a matter of fact , you cannot get doors in this country or any part of the joinery to-day to compete with Empire prices overseas .sx You cannot get doors or produce them at present , and you have not been able to produce them at any time during my lifetime , or at any rate during the last 20 or 25 years , to compete with places within your own Empire where wages are considerably higher than you are paying to those manufacturing doors and other joinery in this country .sx Interruption .sx If it were Protection , it would apply to all countries .sx Somebody has mentioned Russia , and somebody may mention Sweden or Norway .sx You can get doors from any of these countries or from your own Empire , from Canada , infinitely cheaper than you can buy them here .sx If the House can be satisfied that by organisation we can produce houses cheaper than they are produced at present , surely it is worth the consideration of the House and of the Government .sx If you take the motor industry , the cost of a motor-car to-day is roughly half what it was before the War , and the cost of a house is double what it was before the War .sx There must be a reason .sx Tariffs will not explain it .sx Even if one were to admit , which I do not , that there is some advantage to be gained from tariffs or any form of Protection , it does not account and cannot account for the difference that I have mentioned between the motor trade and the building industry .sx There are many thousands of men out of work in the building industry to-day , and there is no need for any form of Protection .sx You can reduce the cost of houses in this country to-day .sx You can employ your men , you have the land , you have the money , and there is no earthly reason why they should not be employed , except one , and that is the lack of organisation in the industry itself .sx If it is possible to organise the motor industry , .sx which is the best organised industry in this country , you can make all the allowances you like for Protection , but it does not and cannot explain the big difference between those two industries .sx I would like to ask the Government to consider seriously whether it is not possible for them as a National Government , having full control and power , to go particularly into the question of housing and to see if it is not possible to get mass production introduced , and standardisation , or at least in a large degree standardisation , and to reduce costs .sx I am interested in the industry because I know that in my own trade , which is that of carpenter and joiner , there are many thousands of men out of work who could be working .sx There are many thousands in the other trades in the building industry out of work ; and I know , because I have tested it and can produce figures that will satisfy anybody they have been produced to the officials of the Ministry of Health that you can get reductions by organisation in the building industry that will employ probably a couple of hundred thousand men , and it can be done within a year .sx I think we have a right to ask the National Government what they are going to do in regard to the housing question An HON .sx MEMBER :sx " What about your Government ?sx " I am asking this Government .sx Every one of the speeches which I have heard to-day from the followers of the Government has asked the Government what they are going to do in regard to many things , particularly agriculture , and surely if their own Members are pressing them as to what they will do in regard to tariffs , it is not unreasonable for me to ask them what is going to be done for those hundreds of thousands of people who are badly housed to-day , who are living in slums , who are seeking houses and needing houses , and for whom houses could be provided if reasonable care and attention and some measure of control were exercised over one of the worst organised industries in the country at the present time , namely , the building industry .sx I submit that if that were done , for every 100,000 houses that you put up , you could employ at least 150,000 men , and there is a need for , not 100,000 , but perhaps some millions of houses at thepresent time .sx I personally wrote with my own hand over 500 letters during the past year to men in the two constituencies comprising Walthamstow , East and West , who wrote to me begging of me to get them an opportunity to live in a decent house , and I know that if it were possible to put up many thousands of houses by some means during the night , within a week every one of them would be occupied by tenants who are now needing them .sx I beg the Government to give some consideration to this question , which is one of the most important questions we can consider .sx I am interested in foreign affairs perhaps as much as anybody else , but we have heard very little , with the exception of agriculture , as to what ought to be done in regard to our own people in our own country who are unemployed at the present time .sx I make this suggestion in all earnestness , that if attention is given to the building industry , and if it is gone into with any reasonable measure of thoroughness , it can be proved that for every 100,000 houses put up , you can employ 150,000 or perhaps 200,000 men , if you take in the other trades associated with the building industry , within a very short time .sx That , at least , would be some measure of satisfaction to the large and increasing number of people who are wholly unemployed at the present time .sx I know that the Prime Minister quoted figures to show that the number of unemployed is going down , but he knows perfectly well that although the number of partially unemployed may be going down or up from week to week , the number of permanently unemployed is steadily going higher .sx In view of that , .sx I make an appeal that the Government shall give serious consideration to the question of housing as a means of meeting two needs that are pressing to-day , that is , to satisfy the people who desire houses and need them very badly , and at the same time to make some contribution towards lowering the number of unemployed .sx The MINISTER of AGRICULTURE ( Sir John Gilmour) :sx I propose only to intervene for a few minutes in this very interesting Debate .sx A number of new Members have taken part , and we are very glad to hear their views .sx The Debate has ranged , of course , over a considerable field , but in so far as the Members have been interested in what the National Government may decide to do with regard to dumping , I would say to them that the Government are anxious that the fullest expression of views should take place in this House , and to assure them that in the final stages of this discussion on the Gracious Speech the President of the Board of Trade will no doubt intervene and give the views of the Government .sx I am grateful to those Members who raised the problem of agriculture , and all the more grateful for their kindly references to myself .sx I can assure them of my own personal interest in the problem with which I have been concerned practically all my life .sx It is true that I know it best in Scotland , but it has been my great pleasure to study it across the Border .sx There can be no doubt in the mind of any hon .sx Member , to whatever party he may belong , that the conditions of agriculture are acute .sx Whatever solution various parties or Members may think right , one thing is abundantly clear ; that is , the continually decreasing arable acre-age in this country and the constantly declining number of people employed in the industry .sx The fact that there was a decrease last year in the number of those employed of 30,000 , and a decrease of something like 130,000 workers in the last 10 years , makes it clear that , whatever else is certain , this problem presents one of very great gravity and urgency .sx I was glad to hear that I was not expected to-night to bring a detailed policy to the House , but it was hoped that I would give some evidence of the interest and determination which I as the responsible Minister for the Department and the Government as a whole feel in dealing with this matter .sx I would say at once that any-one who tries to deal with this problem from one single point of view is bound to fail .sx It is a problem of great complexity and covers a very wide field .sx The eastern counties of England and some of those abutting upon them have their peculiar problem of cereal production .sx There are other parts in the south and west of England where milk and animal production is of vast importance .sx As there are so many varying interests , it is certain that there must be varying remedies , but I think that the House will agree that in viewing this problem the one essential thing is that we must retain a proper balance between the various branches of the industry in order not to damage them .sx