I will not worry the House with more figures , except to state that whereas in one district , in one committee in the district which I represent , the reduction in the numbers of men applying during the past year the figures that I have quoted have been for the last year has been 33 per cent .sx in a committee which deals with half the population ; in a committee which deals with the other half , and which is exactly comparable in every way , the reduction has been 43 per cent .sx One could parallel these cases over and over again , and I suggest to my right hon .sx Friend that there is a very strong case for co-ordinating the work of these various sub-committees in their administration of relief in London .sx Whatever may have been the case two years ago , there is now a very strong case for laying down some kind of uniform scale which should be in operation for the whole of London .sx I do not say that it should be a hard and fast scale from which there should be no departure , and I do not say that all the committees should be bound to it , but there should be some scale by means of which the committees could deal with the cases .sx If you have a purely automatic calculation , then the human side can be dealt with by the committee on the spot , but if you have one committee doing one thing and another committee doing another thing , it results in a most ridiculous mess .sx I am glad that my right hon .sx Friend if speaking or making assertions can do anything has , once for all , disposed of the extraordinary charge that he is responsible for every piece of indiscriminate test work that is imposed upon the poor of London .sx Although training may be possible for a few persons , carefully selected , particularly the younger ones , and whereas the imposition of a test may be in a certain number of cases necessary , where you have people who definitely will not work or who are unsatisfactory in one way or another , to impose a test upon all and sundry and to call it training , is a farce which honesty and decency should end as soon as possible .sx With the co-ordination of the work of the committees , and the attention which I hope my right hon .sx Friend may give to the matter , one hopes that he will be able to use his influence with the party opposite , which is in a tremendous majority at the County Hall , in order to see that the poor of London who go to the guardians to receive public assistance shall be treated in a decent , proper and fitting manner .sx Dr. MORRIS-JONES :sx I suggest that the House should pass from the subject of relief and from the controversy between the hon .sx Member who has just spoken and the hon .sx Member for West Fulham ( Sir C. Cobb ) and turn to the speech delivered by the Minister of Health .sx I was disappointed with the speech of the right hon .sx Gentleman .sx We have heard very little of him during the last Session , or of his able deputy , the Parliamentary Secretary .sx That may possibly account for the rather disappointing speech which he made this afternoon .sx The Ministry of Health is a great Department , one of the greatest Department of State .sx It touches intimately the lives of the people .sx There is not a home which is not directly or indirectly affected , and one expected a broad-minded review of the Ministry's work rather than the series of figures which the right hon .sx Gentleman gave .sx I am sorry that , owing to the procedure of the House , one gets so little time to discuss these Estimates , which are so vast in scope .sx For instance , the question of National Health Insurance only occupied about 10 minutes of the right hon .sx Gentleman's speech .sx That system involves millions of people , and its effects , directly or indirectly , are enormous .sx The right hon .sx Gentleman did not make any reference to the possible extension of this great system .sx Whether or not that extension is desirable is a matter of opinion .sx It may be thought that owing to the state of out national finances The CHAIRMAN :sx If the hon .sx Member means extension by legislation , then that does not arise on these Estimates , and the Minister had no right to make any reference to it .sx Dr. MORRIS-JONES :sx I was hoping that , in view of the importance of the National Health Insurance system , the right hon .sx Gentleman would have made some reference to legislation at some .sx future time , without definitely stating the possibility of immediate legislation .sx The CHAIRMAN :sx If he had done that , it would possibly lead to a discussion that would be out of order .sx Dr. MORRIS-JONES :sx I am satisfied with having made reference to the absence of any allusion to the subject in the right hon .sx Gentleman's speech .sx I was very pleased to hear that the cost of sickness and disablement benefit was down last year by 2,000,000 .sx That is a testimony very largely to the very efficient public health services in this country , certainly the best public health services in the whole world .sx The days are past when epidemics may be regarded as visitations of God .sx It may be that some illnesses are , but some national epidemics of the type of influenza have been proved to be capable of prevention to a large extent .sx I was pleased to find in the report of Sir George Newman for last year that the great scourge of influenza which , although it may be minimised by the public , is certainly never minimised by the insurance companies , was last year , both in extent and virulence , very much less than in the preceding year .sx A great advance has been made in the treatment of this very serious type of illness , an illness which when it does not actually lead to mortality has a very serious effect in after years on the adult life of the country , consequences which are immeasurable in their effect upon the physique of our population .sx I was rather disappointed that in the references to the inter-departmental committee on the alleged excessive claims for national health insurance sickness benefit , the right hon .sx Gentleman did not promise that the report of the committee would be published .sx I hope that it will be published .sx We want to know what are the real causes of these excessive claims .sx If the report had been published , the House would probably be able to appreciate more clearly the recent departmental order issued by the right hon .sx Gentleman in regard to insured persons and a change of doctor .sx That order issued by the right hon .sx Gentleman , greatly curtailing the opportunities to the insured population of this country to have a change in their medical attendant , was issued contraryto the wishes of those who are speaking for the medical profession .sx Their point of view is that it is not altogether in the interests of the insured person and it is not in the interests of the efficiency of medical treatment to curb or limit rather drastically the opportunity of changing doctor .sx The House was very much interested in the remarks of the right hon .sx Gentleman regarding the postgraduate medical school , which was initiated by his predecessor and has been followed up by the right hon .sx Gentleman since he came into office .sx The advances in medical science in recent years have been tremendous , so much so that those of us who had our training 20 or 25 years ago find the greatest difficulty in reading and keeping up with the great and rapid changes in the scope of the prevention , diagnosis and treatment of disease .sx Visualise the life of a hard-working general practitioner who works by day and night , with very few facilities at his disposal and inadequate leisure at his command in order to study and to keep up to date in regard to the modern developments of medical science .sx It is often said that specialists are the great people , but I submit that the general medical practitioner is the first line of defence against disease and illness .sx He is the man who comes into contact with it day by day and who knows the lives of the people , and it is of the greatest importance to the State and the citizens of this country that the general medical practitioner should be up to date in all respects in medical science .sx General practitioners are often very poor .sx Medical men hardly ever die rich .sx Some of them obtain a little competence , but very few of them obtain great wealth .sx I hope that the Government will be able to see their way to give facilities to general medical practitioners to come up to London from time to time to revivify and review their knowledge and improve on what they have learned from the theoretical and academic point of view .sx I was rather disappointed that the right hon .sx Gentleman , in accordance with the usual custom of this House and of all Governments , made not scanty reference , but no reference at all to the Welsh Board of Health .sx Welsh matters , as usual , are relegated in this House to the limbo of forgotten things .sx The Welsh .sx Board of Health is doing very fine work .sx I know of the work that is done by its medical officers , who are extremely capable and who carry out their work with great ability .sx I hope that the right hon .sx Gentleman will give every encouragement to that board , which is working in some ways under difficulties in not being under his direct supervision and not having the same facilities as the English Board of Health .sx I am bound to say , as one who admires the great work done by the right hon .sx Gentleman as a Member of this House , that I was disappointed generally with the review which he gave in his speech .sx It may be that the influence of a very distinguished Member of this House , the Chancellor of the Exchequer , whom we are all pleased to know is recuperating , may from his quiet retreat in Surrey have rather overshadowed what Ministers have to say this year .sx I hope , if the right hon .sx Gentleman is in his place this time next year , that he will be able to give the House a more hopeful , more optimistic , more encouraging and more successful review of the work which the Ministry has undertaken .sx Mr. OSWALD LEWIS :sx I beg to move to reduce the Vote by 100 .sx Before making a comment on the discussion on housing to which we have listened , I wish to direct the attention of the Committee to another part of the Vote and to ask them to consider the way in which the Ministry of Health is carrying out its duties of ensuring a pure supply of milk in this country .sx The Noble Lady the Member for Plymouth ( Viscountess Astor ) , earlier in the Debate , quoted some figures relating to infant mortality .sx There is no single factor more calculated to affect the death-rate of young children than the purity , or otherwise , of the milk supply .sx So far as the Ministry of Health is concerned , the problem falls naturally into two sections .sx First of all , there is the question of milk produced in this country ; secondly , there is the question of milk substitutes imported into this country .sx With regard to the milk produced here , we find in the Estimates a reference on page 19 to special inspectors employed to inspect milk , and on page 21a further reference to special inquiries and services with regard to the examination of samples of milk .sx We are asked to vote money under both those heads .sx The sums in question are not large and , indeed , it is rather surprising that they are not larger .sx I wonder whether one reason why they are not larger is because of the assistance afforded to the Ministry by the big combines engaged in the distribution of milk .sx I would put a specific question to the Minister whether , in his experience of administration in the Ministry of Health the big combines engaged in the distribution of milk in the country do or do not perform a valuable part in ensuring that the milk when delivered to the customer is , in fact , pure .sx