STRATEGY , RESEARCH AND DEVELOPMENT COMMITTEE .sx This Committee has three primary responsibilities .sx First , it will commission special studies to increase the awareness and practical understanding of issues related to training , vocational education and enterprise development .sx Second , it will review the Department's existing research and development priorities and give views on how best these funds should be applied in future to secure national policy objectives .sx Third , beginning this summer , it will sponsor small seminars to examine emerging issues which will have a bearing on future policy and practice .sx These events will bring together top business leaders , academics and opinion formers who have an interest in training , education , enterprise and economic development .sx Over the next two years , the National Training Task Force is committed to serving as an independent , employer-led advisory body which can be the standard-bearer for the TEC movement and , more broadly , for education , training and enterprise development in Britain .sx We believe we must be strategic in our thinking and challenging in our quest for excellence .sx We must set high standards and measure our national progress towards securing a workforce equal to the best in the world .sx And we must contribute to the leadership needed to create a public climate in which training and education are seen as the natural conditions for economic and environmental well-being .sx We believe that the work which we plan to undertake with TECs and other relevant organisations over the coming months will both inform and develop future national goals which are established for TECs and the training and enterprise system at large .sx It should give us the knowledge and expertise to contribute significantly to the Secretary of State's Strategic Guidance and to national policy-making more generally .sx The Task Force has a serious and challenging job to do .sx By working together with individual TECs , the Group of 10 , employer organisations and other interested parties , I believe we can make a significant contribution towards enhancing the skills of our people and the economic prosperity of our communities .sx 13 June 1991 .sx Examination of Witness .sx SIR BRIAN WOLFSON , Chairman , National Training Task Force , was examined .sx Chairman 289 .sx Sir Brian , welcome to our proceedings this afternoon .sx We are very pleased to see you .sx Could you tell us something of your relations vis- a-grave -vis the group of 10 TEC chairmen ?sx Sometimes it is suggested there is an overlap in responsibilities .sx Could you clear that up for us please ?sx ( Sir Brian Wolfson ) Yes , I can .sx The Group of 10 is the representative body chosen by the TEC chairs on a revolving basis , that is to say they agree informally from a region that one person will represent that region , with an alternative , for approximately one year , and then it revolves all the time .sx Its purpose is to deal with those matters which affect the operational side of the TEC programme with Government .sx Where the Task Force is to do with strategy , quality , measuring and fiduciary responsibilities , the G10 works on a hands-on , detailed administrative level , and of course from time to time propositions for areas of change if they feel it necessary to do so .sx 290 .sx You are responsible for objectives and strategy , they are responsible for the mechanics and the delivery ?sx ( Sir Brian Wolfson ) Correct .sx 291 .sx I believe your remit has been extended recently , could you tell us in what way ?sx How have you met your remit to date and what are your new responsibilities ?sx Do you see your Task Force being set up for a period of four years ?sx Is that still the case ?sx ( Sir Brian Wolfson ) Yes .sx The extended remit is in the area of broadening the way we tackle the whole training issue .sx We do not consider it enough just to have the TECs up and running .sx Firstly , they are all pretty new and have a lot of evolution to get through before we get to where we are going , and there is a lot of monitoring to be done and new ideas to be tested and looked at as well .sx We decided the best way we could involve ourselves in that exercise was to take three separate parts .sx The first part was to do with the oversight of the development of the TECs themselves , and that would involve visits from Task Force members and other involvements and checks and balances to see how they were performing .sx The second area was to do with the Investors in People programme , because in a sense we will begin to have accomplished our mission when the majority of companies in this country are investors in people companies , when they have signed up to that degree of commitment to the development of their people .sx We felt that was a key area for the Task Force and it was the other side of the quality of the programme and how it handles those national companies which cannot be handled in the first instance by the TECs themselves .sx The final area is the strategic area where there are still comparisons and lessons to be learned from what is going on in other countries .sx For example , in France and Germany the great bulk of managers when questioned , if you put them against a wall , say - and I think this is very significant , particularly in Germany where 63 per cent of the managers say this is so - the most important thing in their company is the skill of their workforce .sx That says it all when you get down to what comes from the German Federal Republic .sx So in the strategic area there are visions still to be fashioned as to where we need to be in the year 2000 , where we believe this whole programme is going .sx That is how we broadened the interaction of the Task Force and made three separate committee chair-people - Tony Cleaver of IBM takes the TEC part , Allen Sheppard of Grand Met is doing Investors in People , and Bob Reid , who should have been with us today , is doing a strategic over-view .sx I chair the whole thing with them .sx So far as your point on time is concerned , the end of this year will be in fact three years , so we are 2 1/2 years old now .sx The great proportion of that 2 1/2 years was taken up with a people consultation process and the initial impetus of the whole TEC establishment .sx We are now moving into a far more thoughtful - I would not say reflectful but thoughtful - monitoring phase from which we can learn by some of the mistakes we shall certainly make , and at the same time begin to put new leadership positions on the table for the movement to respond to .sx So I doubt whether four years will be sufficient .sx I think if we are going to have an impact we need the Task Force around yet awhile .sx This links back to who is going to own the TEC movement eventually .sx Does it belong to the local communities or who ?sx What should the final relationship be between that movement and Government , which is still its principal customer ?sx 292 .sx What has been happening in London ?sx Quite a few of the London offices do not seem to be up and running yet , do they ?sx Is there any reason for that ?sx ( Sir Brian Wolfson ) No , not in any direct fault sense , there is no reason .sx There is a background reason which I will share with you .sx It was felt by those of us involved that one of the reasons London has always been very difficult to work in and make resolutions of problems possible was because it is such a large and complex entity , and that if we should err on the side of caution we should go for more TECs in the area rather than less .sx In fact the more areas we could break it down to , the more handleable the problem becomes for the individual TECs concerned .sx In fact all the London TECs are now on stream or coming in a few months .sx So because of the complexities , it took that much longer .sx 293 .sx You mentioned the Investors in People programme .sx As you know , with the industrial training boards companies achieved exemption from the levy if they had good training programmes .sx How does the IIP differ from that ?sx Is it roughly the same ?sx ( Sir Brian Wolfson ) No , it is not .sx It is a much deeper and more total element .sx It is even more extensive than BS 5750 .sx If I can digress for a moment , one of the great problems with what we are doing at the moment is whether we are getting value for money out of what is going on in training which is done by companies .sx Only one out of two companies which do have training has a company plan , and only one in seven which has a company plan has a feed-back measure , to measure how well they do their training .sx So there is a great deal of improvement possible , and the Investors in People programme goes very deeply into companies' commitment to training at every level - the measurement of the training , the effect of the training so you get a feed-back system worthy of the name and you can see whether you are spending your money wisely and measuring the individual training growth of all the employees .sx It is much broader than any of the industrial training boards are now .sx 294 .sx Do you have the resources to audit all of these companies adequately ?sx ( Sir Brian Wolfson ) The resources are not yet in place but we think we will have the resources and that is going to be very much a 'user pay' scheme .sx TECs will be charging for the auditing of the Investors in People programme and at the national level we will also be charging for the certification that is carried out under the aegis of the Task Force .sx 295 .sx So firms will be charged a fee for the pleasure of being audited ?sx ( Sir Brian Wolfson ) They will be charged a fee , not for the pleasure of being audited , but for the pleasure of the respect and regard that they will have in their communities for being an Investors in People company .sx 296 .sx Are you confident that in times of recession they are going to come forward in sufficient numbers ?sx ( Sir Brian Wolfson ) Yes .sx We have done a great deal of research .sx The committee that was actually set up was not just members of the Task Force .sx It included members of the TUC , it included members of the CBI , it included members of Chambers of Commerce .sx It was a very wide remit that was examined and consultants were put to work and we have done sample studies of the whole thing and we are in fact very encouraged indeed by the response from commerce and industry to the programme .sx 297 .sx You will be publishing reports , will you , of these audits ?sx ( Sir Brian Wolfson ) You mean in the sense of the report of a company ?sx 298 .sx Of all the companies - your activity in auditing IIP .sx ( Sir Brian Wolfson ) We have been publishing gross numbers but I do not think we will be publishing the dialogue which takes place between company and the audit individual , because the idea is that if a company does not pass first time round they will be counselled as to what they have to do to make sure they get through next time , and they will be re-checked every two , three or four years , according to how they feel about it , to monitor how progress is being made .sx 299 .sx How will the public and Parliament know of what progress is being made in this respect ?sx ( Sir Brian Wolfson ) Because we will be publishing numbers of those companies who have been qualified to be IIP companies .sx 300 .sx The numbers of companies and the numbers - ?sx ( Sir Brian Wolfson ) The number of employees that are fully covered , exactly .sx 301 .sx You have an oversight of the TECs .sx What about the non-statutory industry training organisations ?sx Do you look at them ?sx There are a very large number of them .sx How do they fit in to all this ?sx